How Charlene Cong went from $500 to a 7-Figure Portfolio in 10 Years | Unlocked

00:00:00: how those rich people invest their money.

00:00:02: So I've been doing this job actually for over six, seven years before I joined JPMorgan serving the private banking

00:00:09: client.".

00:00:10: What did you learn?

00:00:11: How do they make money?

00:00:13: Can tell me what's the trap that even sophisticated investors fall into?

00:00:17: Overconfidence I would say.

00:00:19: there's no kind of like secret sauce, right?

00:00:22: It basically is what life you want eventually.

00:00:25: If you want this freedom a bit earlier then you'll have to do little bit of sacrifice but can also take more balanced approach.

00:00:38: A village in northeastern China The Green Chinese Literature First investment of five hundred dollars and at thirty two seven figure portfolio that bought her freedom from corporate life.

00:00:50: If you've ever wondered how someone actually pulls that off, today is the episode for you.

00:00:56: Welcome to Unlocked presented by SwissQuote!

00:00:58: The woman behind this story is Shalen Kong, CFA Charter Holder former JP Morgan investor and founder of Finfit Solution & Vision Investment Academy.

00:01:08: Shalen welcome to Unlucked!

00:01:09: Thank You!

00:01:10: How are you?

00:01:11: Very good Yeah

00:01:13: so you said your from Zurich maybe to introduce it to our listeners.

00:01:17: Who Are You?

00:01:18: Where Are You From?

00:01:20: What do you do in life?

00:01:22: So yeah, I'm from Zurich.

00:01:26: As an expat at Switzerland it's my fifth year living in Zurich, Switzerland and i am the founder of Finfit Solution and Vision Investment Academy so currently we help expats invest smart and retire early through our signature program.

00:01:43: That sounds interesting a good topic for today since were going to talk about exactly That, but first I wanted to know how you came from China.

00:01:52: To Switzerland and how is the expert life?

00:01:54: because that's what we see in your content.

00:01:57: so Can I call you an influencer or a financial influencer?

00:02:01: How do you like to...

00:02:02: I would say more like an educator, but we do create a lot of content.

00:02:07: Like a content creator per se.

00:02:09: But um To be honest We don't really see us as influencers.

00:02:13: We don' t have go back.

00:02:14: Oh!

00:02:14: We want reach million followers.

00:02:18: No never had this kind of goal.

00:02:20: It's about bringing your expertise Financial expertise and I guess nowadays everyone has to make content, show everything.

00:02:29: So how did you start doing that?

00:02:31: And maybe talk about... How you became an expat because i don't really like this word.

00:02:38: You just came to Switzerland!

00:02:40: How does it happen from China here?

00:02:43: When you introduced me village in China.

00:02:47: A lot of people will argue that, okay Shardin you keep saying a single small village is in China and have millions population but yes I would say more like really small city.

00:03:00: That's where I had my education both Beijing and Hong Kong And then started my career in Hong Kong So basically during COVID.

00:03:10: so i moved to Zurich from Hong Kong

00:03:13: And you often say like, You made your first investment with five hundred dollars at the end of university.

00:03:20: What was actually going on in your head when you made that first trade?

00:03:23: Oh my God!

00:03:24: I would say if i can really summarize into one word That is fear.

00:03:31: So, you know I can totally relate.

00:03:33: You know even today i have a lot of students and clients were asking me okay Charlene how do you feel when your first did that right?

00:03:41: so my kind of overall emotion back then is like really pretty much... Is it like um..I press this button all the money will be gone.

00:03:51: what is to buy and sell?

00:03:52: but then you know all these kinds different orders.

00:03:55: I had a lot of fear, but it was also really one of the best decisions have ever made.

00:04:05: And i feel like Fear becomes something else when you know what your talking about.

00:04:10: and i guess You went through alot in education as well In educating yourself with finance But also by working at JP Morgan.

00:04:19: Now we have CFA Aswell So maybe you can introduce people to.

00:04:23: What is CFA Is?

00:04:26: Okay, so CFA just stands for Chartered Financial Analyst.

00:04:31: So basically back then... Back to my time I would say overall speaking it took you about three years.

00:04:36: You know they have three levels and one year usually took you.

00:04:40: you know About one year?

00:04:41: It's like um..you can study for a scene who don't want to say is the hardest.

00:04:48: But people often said that this kind of like the hardest Credential in finance or overall investment industry that you could ever get.

00:04:58: And if you go back to your question like, um... You know, Back To My Life in JP Morgan I was actually before that-I started my career as a banking journalist.

00:05:10: so it's actually private banking journalists.

00:05:16: So my full time job then is more than eight hours per day.

00:05:23: how those rich people, let's say Hananworth individuals and Ultra Hanan worth individuals.

00:05:28: How does rich people invest their money?

00:05:31: So I've been doing this job actually for over six, seven years before I joined JPMorgan serving the private banking clients.

00:05:39: so what did you learn?

00:05:40: How do they make money?

00:05:42: Gosh!

00:05:43: I would say overall speaking if you really ask me What have learned over those past decade banking experience So one thing is really, you really see those rich people.

00:05:58: They are really investing based on their goals.

00:06:02: so that's also kind of like the problem I've seen...so many peoples making today.

00:06:07: for example i would say around me or my friends and family even students and clients at very beginning When it comes to investing, people are just okay.

00:06:18: Let's buy some stocks or buy some ETFs and cryptocurrency is a hot topic by AI right?

00:06:24: By gold?

00:06:24: because go you know people are like this.

00:06:27: they're never thinking about that.

00:06:30: You know if they've never thought about ok Is there really something that really fit my situation with my goals?

00:06:37: So I would say overall speaking what i've seen in the industry not really just like among those rich people.

00:06:43: they are really goal oriented for example from wealth accumulation and when day you know to wealth preservation.

00:06:52: For example, when you start work with a bank then you want your money too.

00:06:57: You really want to preserve your wealth.

00:06:59: So that's something I've seen a lot in the industry, people really know what they want before they invest their money.

00:07:08: And second thing if you ask me what i have learned or see is more on the dark side of the overall banking industry and not seeing every bank bad, you know.

00:07:20: Eventually they are helping people in certain ways and different ways as well.

00:07:25: but you do see a lot of banks or even many or most in the industry that just trying to sell you active mutual funds Trying to sell your wealth planning solutions by giving insurance this kind really give them big commission instead those strategy earning their clients a lot of money.

00:07:49: So that's what I would say is really kind of a little bit dark side of the industry, you know?

00:07:54: You can see as well

00:07:56: and Of course it's important to say not none of What we says in investment advice offcourse.

00:08:03: let me get back too this knowledge of wealthy people because It's Really intriguing interesting cuz you Say they have A goal.

00:08:12: So potentially we can go back to when you started investing and, and potentially.

00:08:17: We could also learn from you what is your goal now?

00:08:21: And What was it before To understand the path you had?

00:08:24: so how did You start investing?

00:08:27: first of all How Did you those First five hundred Swiss francs or dollars Or whatever It Was?

00:08:33: How Did You Start Investing?

00:08:35: Okay

00:08:35: that's a great question because if you really see The numbers is a really big multiple, right?

00:08:43: Everyone can see.

00:08:44: okay you started with five hundred and now your claim.

00:08:47: You have over seven-figure investment portfolio.

00:08:49: so I would say overall speaking if i say it's a really boring story then It may really disappoint a lot of people but um it is what it is.

00:09:00: So If you ask me to share about the entire journey maybe I can just summarize into Just a few figures like how much just a corporate job and how much you save, And How Much You've Invested.

00:09:15: So from the first point... How much have I earned?

00:09:20: I will say overall speaking especially at the very beginning of my career I was earning only like thirty, right?

00:09:27: Thirty thousand per year.

00:09:29: In Hong Kong dollar.

00:09:31: now let's just transfer everything into USD.

00:09:34: it is about something thirty thousand and then eventually after ten years i could make around two hundred K in USD including some side hustles here as well.

00:09:45: so from thirty K to over the past ten years.

00:09:50: And then, this second figure is about the saving rate.

00:09:53: so I think one thing that when i look back it's also something that should really thank myself as I could be able to save like no matter what I was earning a thirty K or two hundred K in the end.

00:10:08: at very beginning its hard to say twenty-thirty percent maximum but Okay, decent six figure.

00:10:18: I could say up to fifty even sixty percent of what i would earn from the corporate job

00:10:25: Which is a lot?

00:10:26: If you hear people talk nowadays also on social media etc.

00:10:31: You need a lot...I feel disciplined for that as well.

00:10:35: It's not easy.

00:10:39: How do you have this discipline?

00:10:40: how did you put fifty per cent on the side?

00:10:43: because especially whenever you're asking people when they want to save, but I also need to buy stuff so it's kind of difficult.

00:10:53: It is a tricky thing to do.

00:10:55: I would say there are no kind of like sick results right?

00:10:58: Basically what kind life will you have eventually?

00:11:01: if you want this freedom a bit earlier then you'll have to sacrifice and take more balance approach.

00:11:11: I was overall speaking, more on the frugal side and aggressive, a little bit aggressive but not that aggressive.

00:11:20: For example throughout my career or ten plus years I only have one Gucci bag that is there!

00:11:26: But if you see all of my friends especially those girls in banking and probably banking like today we'll have a Hermers stack tomorrow by Chanel this kind of thing.

00:11:36: And If i go back to the third point That I've just mentioned how much I make How much are safe?

00:11:42: Then how much am investing?

00:11:43: ?I would say pretty much invested everything, every kind of coin that I've saved.

00:11:50: If we go back to the calculation... like about one million over ten years before equate from thirty K to two hundred K. so on average probably you can calculate as one hundred K for ten years is one million and i've saved about five hundred K half.

00:12:13: overall speaking and with investment because of compound interest, because of a strong investment strategy I could be able to turn this kind of five hundred K to one million in the end.

00:12:25: So it's boring!

00:12:27: It's not boring at the end?

00:12:29: And i wanted to ask you why do you say its boring?

00:12:32: is it because of the assets that your chose or maybe genuinely change the trajectory.

00:12:44: I really like this question because a lot of people thought, okay is it because you could do it?

00:12:51: Is that one or two great traits and why are they boring for us at the end of day?

00:13:04: Corporate employees, right?

00:13:06: You know you may work for an engineer company.

00:13:08: You are probably I say a marketing manager.

00:13:11: We do not.

00:13:12: some of us A lot of us Do not have a finance degree.

00:13:15: So if you ask me what is the steps Of wealth building that was just three steps to make The money.

00:13:23: you save the money and invest the Money with really simple strategy.

00:13:26: so people said okay That's all.

00:13:28: And then yeah A question maybe,

00:13:34: or may be a practical question now.

00:13:36: Let's say someone has five hundred dollars and they want to do the same strategy as you for similar strategies.

00:13:42: how would start?

00:13:43: Okay I like this question is really... This thing that differentiates people who can do it correctly to the other group of people who just randomly pick some stocks or ETFs.

00:13:58: So if you ask me how I was started, just with five hundred K or five thousand more fifty thousand no matter your-you really have in your pocket already in your bank's account.

00:14:08: so i would say that first thing i will do before i open a bank accounts with Swiss Coal awesome other brokers Before I trade anything, buy or sell anything.

00:14:21: I would really first sit down and evaluate my current financial situation And see how much i have in different bank accounts.

00:14:27: What is the current net worth?

00:14:29: Really have a holistic overview of My financial situations.

00:14:33: The second step that I will do Is to define my goals.

00:14:38: Why say this is super important?

00:14:41: Let's just imagine If you are a twenty-two year old young girl Where are we about that?

00:14:48: That you want early retirement, let's say in Thailand and Spain.

00:14:52: You know when you're at forty?

00:14:54: do you think you should invest the same way as a thirty-five year old man who is married or wants to buy property for example of her family five years?

00:15:05: And Do you think these two people should invest in the same ways as a fifty year old lady who is planning on her retirement?

00:15:15: So of course not, right?

00:15:16: People have really different investment situation.

00:15:19: Really different investment goals.

00:15:21: you shouldn't invest the same.

00:15:22: so I would say that next step is ready to define my goals no matter if you had five hundred or five thousand.

00:15:30: and then what i will do it's to really have a holistic overview of different investment options for example in swiss around here we're talking about here but overall globally we have stocks, bonds.

00:15:42: you know real estate.

00:15:44: We have gold ,we have cryptocurrency .We have real estate right?

00:15:48: We have so many different things.

00:15:49: and within stocks we have DMEMUSEOAsia So-and we had third pillar here in Switzerland as well!

00:15:57: Here what I will do is that You don't need to really be like a banker To understand every detail

00:16:05: of

00:16:06: everything.

00:16:07: But what you really need to understand is, What are they?

00:16:10: What are the pros and cons?

00:16:12: And how do I perform different investment options?

00:16:14: How did it perform during a different market cycle?

00:16:17: The most important thing was that your short-term or long-term goals were defined in the first step.

00:16:24: Then based on this tool You build your own investment strategy.

00:16:27: It could be super simple growth oriented business strategy that mostly contain stocks or a little bit exposure up on, but it could be super straightforward at the end of day.

00:16:41: To

00:16:41: be straight forward as well can we give three examples maybe?

00:16:45: Like when you're eighteen whoever you are with five hundred Swiss francs let's say or dollars another one like I would say in beginning your thirties and then for retirement.

00:16:59: In those three situations, how would you do?

00:17:03: Let's start with the eighteen-year old.

00:17:05: Yeah so for example if I were eighteen years old... I wish!

00:17:10: So overall speaking first of all before maybe we go deeper into this question what are talking about is definitely not investment advice.

00:17:20: it doesn't mean that when you're eighteen you should invest in this way.

00:17:23: Of course nothing is an

00:17:24: investment advice You know because we just you know.

00:17:29: give some example.

00:17:30: there are a lot more factor beyond Just age.

00:17:33: You should consider when you build your own investment portfolio, but overall speaking or generically I hate this word But generically so if you were let's say Eighteen year old you have oh my god Yes A lot of time in front of view right?

00:17:49: You Have thirty forty fifty years In terms Of Time horizon.

00:17:53: If i work Eighteen years old, I would definitely take a more aggressive like more risky approach.

00:17:59: For example in my portfolio of course i wouldn't have you know a lot of bond or fixed income exposure because it's genuinely we need to understand high risk and return right?

00:18:11: There is no investment give you a guarantee return and no risk, so the same in investments.

00:18:18: So I would definitely take more aggressive approach to have more stocks oriented portfolio with some alternative exposure like cryptocurrency

00:18:32: etc.,

00:18:33: even single security if i really had high conviction to certain companies.

00:18:39: And if I'm a thirty-five year old, and let's just assume currently you're thirty five years old You have family who has kids right?

00:18:49: If want give your kid the best education for example wants buy property last day in Geneva or Zurich.

00:18:58: so i wouldn't go with super risky portfolio.

00:19:04: Instead, I would take a more balanced approach.

00:19:07: For example balance...I mean you know really a mix of bonds and stocks within bond.

00:19:15: You also have had your bond government bond short duration long-duration right?

00:19:19: And if we don't want to go that deep but overall speaking i will definitely not as risky As If I were an eighteen year old.

00:19:33: My goal, probably I guess is to take a little bit more dividend income because i want to live on my investment.

00:19:43: So at that time you want to take properly a more conservative approach.

00:19:49: instead of growth oriented You may want to be more value-oriented.

00:19:53: You might want to invest in more kind of like income orientated assets.

00:20:01: So let's say it is more like high quality stock driven and more income, you know I'd say within the fixed-income space as well.

00:20:10: So overall speaking if asked me to compare these three i would definitely take a really conservative approach when... If I were at sixty five year old or sixty years old?

00:20:22: And Take A More Balance Approach which I wish.

00:20:30: But also it's not just about strategies, It is also about mindset and psychology around investment because its always easier as we hear a lot in calmer moments to do the great investments.

00:20:42: but when you see the market panicking

00:20:46: or

00:20:46: potentially some drops ups & downs there are lots of psychology going back.

00:20:51: how would you manage this?

00:20:53: Let us take a step back.

00:20:54: i will say that biggest mistake.

00:20:57: I would say you've seen a lot as well in the industry, it's like people keep waiting for the perfect moment.

00:21:04: So when during market volatility or let us say some war time.

00:21:08: now we still have some wars and easing right basically?

00:21:12: People are scared!

00:21:18: Okay, now the market is so volatile probably tomorrow.

00:21:21: The markets down you know ten percent twenty percent because of another war or something like that Or not a policy from Donald Trump from the US right?

00:21:30: So people are scared and during Market upward You know when you see an upward trend in the market People are also scared.

00:21:38: if he was saying think okay Basically, now it's super expensive.

00:21:44: You know everything is super expensive.

00:21:46: the stock market has been up ten percent twenty percent.

00:21:48: so let's wait!

00:21:50: So what I wanted to say is that its really about mindset.

00:21:53: as you just mentioned Igor when during market upward people are scared they will mark downward trend.

00:22:02: People also scare.

00:22:04: if you keep waiting for a perfect moment your basically losing all this kind of opportunities

00:22:11: and talking about actualities.

00:22:12: And I'm going to take this opportunity because you're from an Eastern perspective as well, You worked in Hong Kong has a journalist financial journalists?

00:22:21: Now your own the Western part of the world with western investments and financial decisions.

00:22:27: but i would like To know what are The main differences you've seen?

00:22:32: knowing both worlds and living In between those worlds how do you see people invest here or maybe there?

00:22:41: Not specifically in details, but just to know because we're talking about a lot of political stuff happening now.

00:22:46: A lot of Eastern-Western financial activities are happening.

00:22:52: so what can you maybe say if you had to summarize your opinion on that?

00:22:56: I would say no matter whether it's Hong Kong or Zurich and Geneva overall speaking they actually have more similarities than the differences that I've seen.

00:23:08: Why i said so is because you know one thing, what we call in finance.

00:23:13: um it's home bias.

00:23:15: So people are like that as well.

00:23:17: You just reflect differently when you're at different places.

00:23:21: For example In Hong Kong What I have been seeing a lot of my friends around me.

00:23:26: They had lots Chinese dogs.

00:23:28: They buy Maotai.

00:23:29: Have you heard of it?

00:23:31: Alibaba, Tencent.

00:23:33: Why?

00:23:33: because they drink maotai right and then use those apps from alibaba and tencent And I would say a significant amount.

00:23:44: their money is pretty much invested in their home countries In Hong Kong, mainland China in Asia, overall speaking.

00:23:54: And here as well if you know I have a lot of clients and students in Switzerland for example Swiss people or my students at the very beginning before they approach me.

00:24:10: They have a lot of stocks in, for example, UBS and previously in Credit Suisse or in Roche.

00:24:16: You know this kind of pharmaceutical companies And since I also have some you know...I Have a lot.

00:24:22: our main clients are expats here in Switzerland and their home country might be let's say France Or like In Spain or other countries and they know Their Home Country Like For Example A Lot Of French People.

00:24:35: They May Invest A Lot like their luxury industry because they know a lot.

00:24:41: So what I want you to say is that yes, there are some nuances differences between let's say investors in Hong Kong or investor here in Europe but i've seen more similarities than differences In these two areas.

00:24:58: it makes sense.

00:24:59: But I was also asking Because now we see BYD coming into Europe as well with new cars and new products That show amazing products coming here and technologies from here in there.

00:25:14: It's use of those technologies, as you say brands or whatever we buy that tend to push us also go into the markets.

00:25:25: but interesting have your opinion on this?

00:25:27: it is rare for a person who knows both worlds living in Switzerland what do feel really Swiss?

00:25:35: In terms of investing,

00:25:38: maybe chicken.

00:25:39: Exactly

00:25:40: not the cheese Not chocolate.

00:25:42: Just based on my observation I would say a lot people here tend to be more conservative in their investment approach.

00:25:54: You know, I do see...I mean that is back to the question you were asking me about goal investing.

00:26:01: Right?

00:26:01: You have different financial situation and you've got different financial goals right?

00:26:07: Do we want to retire early or buy a property ?

00:26:10: Or do you wanna have comfortable retirement life

00:26:15: etc.?

00:26:16: What i could say here in the industry especially here in Switzerland?

00:26:22: they don't probably, we don't really understand the risks yet.

00:26:29: We think you know that risk are not a good thing You know?

00:26:34: They think the risk is bad but in investment we know there's some good risks There're some bad risks right.

00:26:41: so when you say aggressive approach risky approach That also means if it's good risk potentially better return, right?

00:26:51: If you ask someone okay I don't want risk.

00:26:53: I want guaranteed that then you probably know yes buy those like fixed income is more...I would say less risky but you don't have those upside as well.

00:27:07: so what i wanted to say at the end of day is that overall speaking people here are a little bit conservative.

00:27:12: That's also because this kind knowledge in themselves.

00:27:18: They can actually, a lot of people take good risks.

00:27:22: That's very interesting.

00:27:23: I never heard this Good or bad risk?

00:27:26: I just want to use some simple terms.

00:27:28: No

00:27:28: that is super-interesting.

00:27:30: to see it that way.

00:27:32: Potentially Can you tell me what?

00:27:33: the trap that even sophisticated investors fall into has nothing do with knowledge

00:27:40: Overconfidence?

00:27:42: I've seen a lot among my friends, who are in the banking industry.

00:27:48: So i had this conversation with one of my best friend She's also in banking and commodity trading space And what she told me... This circle as well is like people in the industry sophisticated investor.

00:28:09: They tend to be overly confident Because they know this kind of thing, for example commodity trading is what I've been doing over the past twenty years.

00:28:19: And then on their spare time when they build their own wealth They probably put you know eighty percent off your time The money into commodity trading.

00:28:28: You know.

00:28:28: Of course sometimes they make a lot of money but Sometimes When there's speculation is wrong and Then they lose a lot.

00:28:35: Basically in my personal view It just not right way to build wealth.

00:28:40: Wealth building needs to be boring.

00:28:43: Like today, you earn double and then tomorrow lose eighty percent of your portfolio.

00:28:48: but this really would have seemed a lot in the industry especially those sophisticated investor if someone from hedge fund industry they properly their own personal wealth building strategy is around Hedge Fund If They're In Commodity And Their Personal Wealth Building Strategy Is About Commodality Trading.

00:29:10: So which, you know can be I would say overall speaking over confidence translate to over concentration.

00:29:18: Now what would you consider a boring investment?

00:29:21: Like just give an example of we don't have to tell names but is it ETFs monthly recurring payments on ETFs or stuff

00:29:28: like that?

00:29:28: one example yeah for example if You have A simple strategy Or a boring strategy could be like this okay here my strategy thirty percent in this bond fund, forty percent in the global equity ETF and then the other thirty percent.

00:29:46: let's say some alternative.

00:29:50: I wouldn't put thirty-percent in an alternative, probably twenty percent in alternatives like forty per cent in a equity fund.

00:29:56: at thirty per cent is more balanced right?

00:30:00: And yeah every month i have five thousand I want to invest into these strategies.

00:30:06: That means, you know every month I have three trades and every month i do this.

00:30:11: It's boring right?

00:30:13: But yeah it is working well aswell.

00:30:16: And potentially not to talk about investment always.

00:30:18: but what one mindset shift that if someone adopted today would change their next thirty years of investing.

00:30:26: just start now don't wait!

00:30:31: You know, again you what I've seen a lot is like people during good time.

00:30:35: People are scared.

00:30:36: it's too expensive During downtime and people are scared things might to get worse.

00:30:42: there's no perfect moment.

00:30:44: just start now with the really simple strategy having global mindset instead of being home biased.

00:30:51: And uh...you have lived the expat life across China Hong Kong Singapore Europe.

00:30:58: From everything you've seen, what's the single biggest financial mistake expats make in their first two years of moving?

00:31:05: Over complicated things I would say.

00:31:08: A lot people as expats will think okay we're different.

00:31:12: Yes, you are different because the pension system is not built for people like you.

00:31:18: You move around and overall the banking systems probably also aren't built to be built by people such as yourself.

00:31:26: So one thing that I've seen was that because of the perceived overcomplication People just stop doing anything And they're just worth building Like we talked about.

00:31:37: They make money, save it, invest in it and focus on two things For example, like expect in Switzerland.

00:31:44: I would say a lot of us we make really decent amount of salary right?

00:31:49: Compared with for example compared to your home country.

00:31:53: but i see people just because the perceived overcomplication they stop investing or haven't started it.

00:32:00: okay wait until you move back and wait till...I know enough!

00:32:05: But there's some simple strategy can change for investment journey

00:32:12: and it's also i mean you come.

00:32:14: we have different financial institutions with ui coming in a new country so a lot of expats end up with money accounts pensions scattered across multiple countries currencies and providers.

00:32:27: actually swiss quote has built specific offering for that reality.

00:32:31: but beyond having the right Financial partner, what's the mindset shift that expats need to make to stop treating their financial life as a series of disconnected pieces?

00:32:43: Simplify everything.

00:32:45: We really need to learn that and it is very easy as well.

00:32:50: so I would say overall speaking this kind of simplification you just need one strategy no matter how many banks account in different or investment accounts.

00:33:02: Just simplify everything.

00:33:03: That is the key and it's super easy as well, right?

00:33:08: So really just based on your goals understand different investment options And then build a really simple investment strategy.

00:33:14: It's not hard.

00:33:17: Yeah potentially talking about financial reality I want to talk about your reality which is The fire reality the financial independence As you said.

00:33:27: can you maybe explain what fire means?

00:33:31: Yeah, so FIRE is F-I-R-E.

00:33:34: So it stands for Financial Independence and Retire Early I would say Orange Native from the US And there are a lot of online movements as well.

00:33:43: basically The key concept behind the FIRE movement Is that... I will save alot money!

00:33:50: I'll invest that.

00:33:51: Then i want to have a portfolio large enough.

00:33:54: then i can live on So I don't have to really rely on my corporate job.

00:33:59: To make me, let's say ten K per month... ...I want a portfolio you know..to enable me to have those kind of income later.

00:34:09: so that is basically the concept.

00:34:11: But what's the minimum you would need?

00:34:14: to be financially independent really.

00:34:17: So from this basically movement, yes you do have what we call as a fire number or fire target whatever you call it and they really depends on your lifestyle.

00:34:27: And there are different fires.

00:34:28: that's why people call it fatfire thin fire lean fire like chubby fire coast fire.

00:34:35: You know different kind of things.

00:34:37: but overall speaking I would say which globally?

00:34:40: People follow these four percent rule.

00:34:43: People also call it twenty-five multiplied by twenty five rule.

00:34:47: So, basically the same thing that means like how much you need a year to sustain your lifestyle?

00:34:54: For example if you have family possibly is one hundred K per year in Switzerland and then use that number one hundred k multiply by twenty-fifth How much does that?

00:35:06: two and half million so could be your fire goal.

00:35:11: And if you are more like, okay I'm a frugal person.

00:35:15: Actually i have designated YouTube video talking about that.

00:35:18: maybe we can link the video later on as well.

00:35:22: so for example If You Are A Frugal Person ,I would say every single assume I am Single and I only need fifty K per year .

00:35:32: I don't want to live in Switzerland or Spain For Example.

00:35:35: then use number five of fifteen thousand multiplied by twenty five.

00:35:41: So that could be your fire goal.

00:35:43: and why people use twenty-five is mainly because you know, it's not that complicated.

00:35:49: so people use four percent withdrawal rate.

00:35:52: this rule.

00:35:53: That means like if you have a portfolio normally If you invest really strategically Overall speaking, the equity market over the past ten-twenty-fifty years you can expect seven percent eight percent in return every single year.

00:36:09: And if you just withdraw let's say four percent from your portfolio Every single year and then it could be infinite.

00:36:17: You can't withdraw this four percent forever because the market increased on average seven percent.

00:36:24: So basically that is why people use these four percent or twenty five rule.

00:36:30: You know fire movement,

00:36:31: but is it actually realistic for most of the people?

00:36:35: That's a very good question.

00:36:37: I would say not very Realistic if you live in a country where you don't receive a decent salary.

00:36:51: But in Switzerland there are so much more realistic because you could see the median salary.

00:36:58: For example, I checked the data last week is like a median salary in Zurich.

00:37:03: it's seven thousand or eight thousand per month.

00:37:05: that means one hundred K per year.

00:37:08: if really want to be a little bit frugal especially for first few years right?

00:37:16: It so achievable then another country where only earn thirty K forty K. So I would say if you ask me, If it's really realistic not for every single country but for Switzerland specifically.

00:37:31: It is so realistic Although the costs are high some people may argue that But also depends on what kind of lifestyle That you want.

00:37:39: Yes especially if You have a ten Gucci bags or

00:37:43: ten Ferraris

00:37:44: Then its bit different.

00:37:47: But maybe let switch to The final question now, if someone listening today is exactly where you were ten years ago.

00:37:57: No finance background no inheritance just curiosity in a job A normal person If I may Where should they start?

00:38:07: That's um...I like this question it because You know lot of clients or students.

00:38:11: before They come to me they are asking me that Shardia have zero finance Background and then i say Don't worry at all because, you know for example we do sometimes.

00:38:21: We have people they join the program their CEOs are head of The whole department in a really global company but there're a lot of People like I'm a chef and a restaurant i run A restaurant?

00:38:33: I am a fitness trainer so people would just Like have zero zero finance background.

00:38:38: So if You ask me to number one piece of advice I will say Just really educate yourself In terms financial literacy.

00:38:47: Don't just follow those generic advice online about okay, despite this ETF and then you're done!

00:38:56: Just buy S&P five hundred by cryptocurrency or gold.

00:38:59: don't follow these kind of generic advice on line.

00:39:03: really educate yourself know who are what to have currently your own financial situation understand your goals and then invest based on your own situation.

00:39:14: That's

00:39:15: a perfect conclusion for our podcast, thank you Sharlene for coming!

00:39:18: Maybe we have one last word from the listeners or maybe they can find us somewhere.

00:39:23: if there are some social media as well?

00:39:25: We will of course link everything in the description but I think it would be nice to have another word for them.

00:39:32: So actually people told me that we're currently running Squizzer and Biggest English speaking personal finance and investment YouTube.

00:39:41: So we started on YouTube, so if you are seeking some free financial education You know?

00:39:48: You could definitely start there And we also have our paid program of course But I always ask people to just check out our free investment training class first before you want to commit for anything because it's all so definitely not for everyone.

00:40:07: But thanks so much for having me, Iga!

00:40:09: Of course and if you want to see more of your content You also have some articles on our blog.

00:40:16: So feel free to go check out the blog And i would like thank you all For coming in bringing this knowledge To us.

00:40:24: It has been a really interesting conversation.

00:40:27: Again Feel free listen other Unlocked Podcasts.

00:40:31: We're gonna talk about so many other topics and to find us in the description with all of social media we have.

00:40:36: Thank you very much, see ya next time!