How to invest in innovation without falling for the hype | Unlocked

00:00:00: traditional index will just buy companies, usually market cap weighted that are listed on a stock exchange like the NASDAQ.

00:00:08: Then you have to top one hundred companies or the S&P or the MCI all country where about three thousand companies but it doesn't do an other filter.

00:00:14: what we wanted And it's very important in a world where more and more assets are in the passive space, when you don't have really this active quality check on the share prices is to add one filter.

00:00:26: That filter is this company making something that is very innovative, able to grow faster than market expects... ...and has pricing power so not many other companies can copy it.

00:00:39: Those are the companies still creating immense value for economy and investors in future too!

00:00:46: Just one little filter on every benchmark and that's how we make our products.

00:00:53: Welcome to Unlocked, the podcast presented by SwissQuote giving a voice to those who challenge the rules and reinvent their industries!

00:01:00: She grew up in a small swiss village studied engineering at ETH Zurich worked in Los Angeles London, Zurich and eventually decided that the world was investing in the wrong kind of innovation.

00:01:12: Instead of chasing hype she built a company with different conviction That real winners are not companies inventing their future but ones capable to turn innovation into profits.

00:01:22: Our guest today is Eveline Frugui CEO & co-founder of The Singularity Group.

00:01:27: Welcome to Unlocked.

00:01:29: You often say that innovation isn't enough.

00:01:31: you have be able to monetize it.

00:01:33: Was there specific moment?

00:01:35: when you realized that many investors were looking at innovation the wrong way.

00:01:39: The big moment really came initiated from my co-founder.

00:01:43: I was back then an investor in the energy and resources space, a portfolio manager.

00:01:48: That's where you track cash flows right?

00:01:50: You try to invest in the companies that make money In The Energy Space.

00:01:54: And he Was An Avid Technology Investor.

00:01:57: He loved the idea of technology being solution To a lot Of The World Problems But the investment products, the thematic ETF or funds and things that he invested in Virtual reality, three-D printing etc...he came to me and said hey Evelyn what is wrong with these Things?

00:02:10: they go up They Go Back Down Then They Close Them.

00:02:12: I'm always losing my money.

00:02:13: And we then sat down and had a theory, you know that if you applied this idea to chase the cash flows of companies that make them on either value chain or innovation they could make better investment products?

00:02:24: That's where it started.

00:02:26: A little later We spent more time in the weekends building these company than i did at my actual job.

00:02:30: Then we founded The Company.

00:02:32: I want your background maybe for people who don't know You can tell us about you.

00:02:36: I didn't plan This So I'm not somebody that always wanted to be an entrepreneur.

00:02:41: Didn't really have the job description in my palette or something like that, but it definitely was someone who's very curious about how the world worked and I was convinced America is a better place on earth than Switzerland and Europe.

00:02:54: so actually i studied at ETH food science biochemistry and biotech also find out what part of the world works And got offered to move with a company called Capital Group Companies largest asset manager in the world, and they were based in LA.

00:03:10: So I went there not because i wanted to move to finance... ...I went there cause I want it go to Los Angeles!

00:03:15: And The Sun!

00:03:17: That's a little bit how I got into Finance?

00:03:19: I learned alot there more than most places just beacuse of that time in my life.. ..I knew alot about how science & technology worked but didn't understand How did this fit into the World Because alot things are interesting.

00:03:32: sciences and promising products don´t actually make money Never make it into the real world never create value for investors.

00:03:41: So That role in the investment firm helped me understand that to be a successful investment eventually you had to make money.

00:03:49: So by chasing this son, you ended up finding your way into finance and many people hear the word innovation.

00:03:55: You mentioned it before And immediately like people think of futuristic ideas cool gadgets companies.

00:04:01: that makes headlines but Your approach is very different right?

00:04:04: But often distinguish between innovation and applied innovation.

00:04:07: What's the difference?

00:04:08: Innovation is or often gets understood as what you just described, right?

00:04:12: Fancy gadgets.

00:04:13: Hypes ideas things that are in the research phase and the patent phase.

00:04:18: we call it applied innovation.

00:04:19: We add this adjective to differentiate That from then.

00:04:23: we want to make sure that we filter for things that Are doable that are currently being done, shown or represented in a product or service.

00:04:31: That can be sold and make money and earnings to drive the share price of a

00:04:35: company.".

00:04:36: And why do so many innovative companies fail to create value for investors?

00:04:41: I've said this before!

00:04:42: I don't think it's the company's fault necessarily but its timing that the investor decides to get into.

00:04:48: The companies will appreciate their share prices going up on some sort of idea.

00:04:52: they communicated with them Over and over again, very keen on getting exposed early to ideas.

00:05:01: And they're happy to get exposed early but finally once those ideas come to fruition and make money They are already looking for the next best thing.

00:05:10: I remember this exactly with.

00:05:11: something we really experienced hard is when NVIDIA announced these data accelerators.

00:05:17: The moment they were announced, the share price spikes a quarter later even more earnings are announced it goes further up and from then on A lot of our peers moved out of NVIDia.

00:05:28: we're looking for the next best thing And so many clients asked what's the next NVIDA?

00:05:33: Our answer was NVIDYA!

00:05:35: Sometimes you could stay longer in something that just starting to happen And right that way, if you could have done with the whole smartphone industry as well.

00:05:45: You know when those smartphones were announced?

00:05:47: It would've been late in Apple actually in two thousand nine ten even eleven and still made a lot of money.

00:05:53: it wasn't late.

00:05:55: so its this desperation to be early.

00:05:59: That is the investors fault more than the company's non-innovativeness.

00:06:05: And it is also a long term run, right?

00:06:07: We always talk short term usually with innovation because it comes fast but its supposed to stay longer when you innovate and have to see longterm.

00:06:16: You developed the Singularity Index which was first benchmark for applied innovation.

00:06:20: as mentioned What exactly were trying?

00:06:22: measure that traditional indices miss?

00:06:26: Traditional index will just buy companies, usually market cap weighted that are listed on a stock exchange like the NASDAQ.

00:06:34: Then you have to top one hundred companies or the S&P or the MCIL country where about three thousand companies but it doesn't do an other filter.

00:06:40: what we wanted to make sure and is very important in a world were more and more assets are in the passive space when they don't really this active quality check on their share prices is to add one filter.

00:06:52: And that filter uses company making something That is very innovative, that he's able to grow faster than the market expects and has pricing power.

00:07:03: so not many other companies can copy it.

00:07:05: And those are the companies still creating immense value for economy in the future.

00:07:12: just one little filter on every benchmark

00:07:16: an investable portfolio.

00:07:18: We can also talk about this philosophy, it's also at the heart of The New Theme Trading Certificate we're launching together with SwissQuote, the innovation money makers.

00:07:28: maybe you want to talk a bit more?

00:07:30: The Innovation Money Makers Portfolio I think is a thirty stock portfolio selected from the MSI world so the world benchmark and we're applying exactly that filter.

00:07:42: So what we do at the Singularity Group is traditional investors will look at a list of companies, then select ones they want.

00:07:48: We start by looking at whole lists innovations.

00:07:51: I'm placing those innovations either in this hype future phase, not doable.

00:07:55: In the middle phase that is currently very valuable and misunderstood by the market or in the past phase which it's a commodity like electric vehicles.

00:08:05: everybody can make them.

00:08:06: they might be penetrating the world but too many Chinese companies could make these so its a commodity.

00:08:11: So once we do with an expert panel of now about forty five entrepreneurs Not analysts So not people that read what everybody else is reading, but entrepreneurs who are building various technologies.

00:08:24: Some of them are building stuff today which isn't possible and knowing those technologies aren't finding a home in the world it's valuable for us because we're not even going to think about spending our time on it.

00:08:37: But knowing when things do come into fruition when certain developments actually happen and who the companies then are that make revenues with those products and services is very valuable.

00:08:49: So we go from identifying innovations, they're in this focus area to then identify the product's on services by them.

00:08:57: We still haven't seen companies so we stay away from the emotion of you know falling in love with chance no longer or or Elon Musk And then we see which companies actually make these products and services, that we find out in the revenue reporting lines of the company.

00:09:12: So this product is basically taking the MSI world and filtering for all these innovations to actually make money putting them into a portfolio.

00:09:23: Anything you will hear on this podcast.

00:09:25: it's not an investment advice Of course.

00:09:27: We have mentioned.

00:09:28: many people say they believe in AI energy efficiency health care technology but don't know which company choose.

00:09:35: Is that exactly the problem this certificate is trying to solve?

00:09:39: Yes, and what we certainly also want?

00:09:45: It's not just for now, right?

00:09:46: One day AI might be a commodity and there will be other areas that we don't even know the word of.

00:09:51: So this certificate is designed to capture the next waves of innovation That can make cash flows and money for investors as well.

00:10:00: And how do you capture this wave exactly in?

00:10:03: How do you distinguish between a real long-term trend than the short term fashion?

00:10:07: what two sources We have humans with those entrepreneurs?

00:10:10: Right then?

00:10:10: I mean some of these people are building printing machines to print organs, etc.

00:10:16: And they will be convinced this is gonna come.

00:10:19: but we ask them the right questions.

00:10:21: you know why isn't it happening now?

00:10:22: and often the reason is the industry's not ready to pay.

00:10:25: there is no regulation for it whatever the reason that its'nt happening helps us stay away from something thats isn't happening.

00:10:33: once we have identified some things possible be it the data accelerator of NVIDIA, enabling all these AI applications.

00:10:41: We try to identify what parts of this value chain are really money makers because software for us... as for a long time, and still isn't the main moneymaker of this AI trend.

00:10:51: It's still the semiconductor infrastructure in energy infrastructure.

00:10:55: so we try to find what is sweet spot where you can really have these pricing power?

00:10:59: And with data because if you look at who selling certain products... We have that data from company reports.

00:11:09: You see there were three companies and all of sudden there are twenty Chinese companies.

00:11:14: you know, the pricing power is gone.

00:11:17: So we try to stay away from any kind of developments where companies are losing marketpower and we tried to follow into those areas were noticing that winter takes all situation.

00:11:27: so it's daytime humans

00:11:29: To ask about this specific company since either certificate which companies might surprise people That are inside this certificate?

00:11:38: Either because they're less well known or their role in innovation underestimated.

00:11:42: I try to pick some because i don't know you know, some of your listeners might be completely in this space.

00:11:48: uh...I mentioned before actually an interesting.

00:11:52: it's a healthcare company in Japan called Hoya.

00:11:55: do you know them?

00:11:55: No

00:11:56: So do you know ASML?

00:11:58: We've all heard of ASML being this key EUV technology that helps the data accelerators at NVIDIA and AMD make be so amazing.

00:12:06: TSMC needs ASML as well, so ASML would not function without Hoya.

00:12:12: Hoya produces photo masks.

00:12:14: You can use this EUV technology on these photo masks.

00:12:20: that, you know, prints basically the chip design of a photo mask.

00:12:24: That's an unknown company.

00:12:25: I think it is Japanese Company.

00:12:27: It's healthcare company that does semiconductor application.

00:12:31: We have French company called Vancy in our portfolio.

00:12:34: There actually energy kind construction company created quite a business for itself in this whole data center build out but also all the energy efficiency infrastructure.

00:12:46: Not unusual, I think that we still have maybe Broadcom in our portfolio.

00:12:52: Broadcom makes kind of AI chip version for Alphabet.

00:12:56: when Alphabet announced they had these chips now Everybody thought Alphabet was going to go through the roof because they have this chip, but Alphabet designed it.

00:13:03: Broadcom is a company that's behind all of these things and then sends them to manufacturing at TSMC.

00:13:11: And when people hear innovation again... They often think about risky volatile companies.

00:13:16: But your approach is much more diversified than systematic.

00:13:19: So why is diversification especially important in innovation investing?

00:13:24: Well first we diversify even in an innovation.

00:13:27: So we would have never only bet on one company, for example.

00:13:31: We really see a lot of value in new types of energy-efficient jet engines.

00:13:36: so there are only couple companies in that space, RTX G Aerospace, Safran is also here as well... ...we will then not bet on them.

00:13:44: once you've identified something it's highly innovative and difficult to make Trying to pick that one winner out of that can be dangerous.

00:13:52: You never know what the industry dynamic is going to be, I've seen it go disastrous on the GLP-One people picking Nova instead of Lily.

00:14:00: We claim once companies make something amazing you should try and own a little bit of basket of it.

00:14:06: It's usually not many companies who makes something amazing.

00:14:09: The second thing is diversify within innovations or amongst innovations.

00:14:15: And thats for one reason.

00:14:16: lots things are going on.

00:14:18: Some things have way more attention, like AI.

00:14:21: That attention can be positive or negative depending on news flow.

00:14:24: it can flap around in your portfolio for no reason than Trump saying something or somebody else?

00:14:29: Or an immediate outlet and there is just good to have some other things that are more stable stabilizing in your portfolio.

00:14:39: Innovation is changing every industry, as you mentioned but not all innovations create the same amount of value right?

00:14:45: So if you had to choose one theme that you believe it's still underestimated today... You said tech was maybe NOT THE MAIN ONE!

00:14:51: Which one would be?

00:14:52: Well I'd say everything we currently have on our portfolio we assume is misunderstood and underestimated.

00:14:58: If i personally add to pick one It is something that keeps going.

00:15:03: Keeps creating a lot of value, but it's at the back end of everything and that is the whole area of energy infrastructure electrification smart grids in that whole space And the components that go into.

00:15:16: that are often by the way also European industrial companies That deliver them.

00:15:20: they keep popping up a little you know again In this energy crisis in Iran as some sort of background noise.

00:15:28: then They keep delivering but they never really get this full on attention like AI or virtual reality.

00:15:35: But

00:15:35: why do you think it's that way?

00:15:37: I think also because its been around for a while.

00:15:39: right, people love the new thing and AI...I think if AI still had always have same news every day we would be sick of it too..but there is something new where now they can do this.

00:15:51: so i think that sector doesn't tell me anything new.

00:15:57: It's also not in your hand all the time, right?

00:15:59: We're experiencing AI.

00:16:01: Or we had virtual reality goggles.

00:16:03: maybe you can experience it yourself but freaking electricity has been around for a long time.

00:16:09: The use of energy is difficult to tackle.

00:16:12: potentially when We'll have a crisis or something, I don't know if we will.

00:16:16: Have some thing with energy?

00:16:18: Will be like uh-huh maybe... ...we need to invest in solar panels and stuff like this.

00:16:22: so i think it's linked to that.

00:16:24: Maybe other reasons?

00:16:25: Is is only geopolitical.

00:16:27: I mean,

00:16:29: go back and look into these developments.

00:16:31: Right?

00:16:32: The solar panels were once an amazing thing.

00:16:34: it became a commodity as well right but the installers And background of you know there are companies in that space to still make a lot of money.

00:16:43: They don't sound as sexy, you know the new AI chip.

00:16:47: I think it has to do a little bit with that but... The media could help us!

00:16:51: Maybe they can talk more about it?

00:16:54: You know hydrogen was an energy topic That got a lot of media attention But we stayed away from it for exactly same reasons.

00:17:03: We didn't see it really penetrating and creating value.

00:17:07: I think Toyota who developed something with hydrogen like motors.

00:17:10: With that, i feel Like it's also linked to products we can use every day.

00:17:14: so AI became a thing because We-we Can send emails through AI now and see That It's faster.

00:17:19: So when people See directly that its Faster then we see the value of it.

00:17:23: As long as People don't have an electric car They won't see The Value Of paying Cheaper for Electricity Etc.

00:17:29: So i Think Its Linked To Usage Everyday Life.

00:17:32: And there is another Thing Another Topic That Is Linked Every Day Life.

00:17:35: Its Health Care all linked to that in a way.

00:17:38: And healthcare technology is another big part of the portfolio, what do you think will change most in health care over the next ten years?

00:17:46: Just

00:17:46: this little star in these.

00:17:49: we on purpose did not concern ourselves necessarily with our next ten-years right where boringly but helpfully for performance focusing was really creating value.

00:18:00: now People are always looking at that future.

00:18:03: So I did ask personally, you know... ...I'm not the right expert.

00:18:07: we have three entrepreneurs in our think tank.

00:18:10: Vincent Revol at CSEM.

00:18:12: they work a lot with companies integrating innovations.

00:18:15: he's in the life science space of CSEM.

00:18:17: We have Andreas Schneider and Ypsomet.

00:18:19: They do the syringes for the GLP injections on other things.

00:18:23: And we've Simone Leonetti.

00:18:24: He is at Haïsoulou Lucerne.

00:18:26: so those are our three entrepreneur experts That help us understand healthcare And I asked them before i came here what their ten-year prediction was, and I'm personally very worried especially for Switzerland that we're aging.

00:18:41: We have less people wanting to work in healthcare?

00:18:44: That's a huge problem!

00:18:45: All three of them are not worried about it at all.

00:18:48: they think technology is going to solve everything.

00:18:52: so... They see already now if the industry allows then You can transcribe doctor appointments, you could have an AI recording everything.

00:19:00: Putting that all into a system recommending maybe even at least to the doctors some drugs... ...that you can apply for next treatment etc.

00:19:07: They think a lot of care because of this can go home.

00:19:10: So elderly people don't always need to find their homes.

00:19:13: Go in and elderly care homes but be treated longer at home.

00:19:16: Vaso Revol mentioned something that is revolutionary.

00:19:19: That's already going on.

00:19:21: You can also have on chip cells or liver or organ and test a drug on those cells.

00:19:29: And have computer programs already tell you in the simulation what they likely effect is going to be, so this speeds up trials that are in drug development.

00:19:39: it removes animal trials or human trials at least limits them.

00:19:45: he's convinced of creating lots faster developments for amazing drugs that can solve.

00:19:53: Talking about development and you mentioned before that you worked in the

00:19:56: U.S.,

00:19:57: potentially abroad, do you think Europe is falling behind when it comes to innovation compared with US or China?

00:20:04: we hear often on the news?

00:20:06: You know so many people say that Europe's falling behind in innovation because they think innovation is tech you know, IT digital stuff.

00:20:13: I agree actually on the whole.

00:20:15: Digital AI cloud etc.

00:20:17: were behind.

00:20:18: i mean Europe doesn't even have a cloud.

00:20:20: we're building small clouds right?

00:20:21: SAP is an Amazon Cloud.

00:20:24: so yes Europe's behind in some things.

00:20:27: digital innovation with China and The US In our analysis are way ahead of us.

00:20:32: but Europe has lead in a lot of industrial areas and electromechanics, energy infrastructure.

00:20:40: There are lots European companies that play roles somewhere there.

00:20:42: on the value chain.

00:20:44: The only thing I keep mentioning is now we feel like in Europe should spend on catching up becoming this digital leader and spending on defence.

00:20:53: Why don't we find allies who already work together with them instead trying to catch-up from one hundred years behind?

00:21:00: And make sure they stay leaders you know, create a dependency there and exchange that.

00:21:07: So I also think for example the European finance industry has a good chance... Americans are basically asset managers.

00:21:15: at least they've gone passive right?

00:21:17: Just go passive to ETFs.

00:21:20: They have a lot of volume in their but very low margins.

00:21:22: There's gonna be time.

00:21:24: already now we have more than fifty percent equity AUM in US invested in passive vehicles.

00:21:31: It's going to be a tipping point where people want to go active again.

00:21:34: I think Switzerland, Europe would have the chance to play their role there.

00:21:38: so why not try and be somewhere?

00:21:40: you don't already have massive competition?

00:21:43: What will it take for Europe or perhaps Switzerland become true leader in applied innovation?

00:21:47: since we talked about it?

00:21:49: We've got some pockets!

00:21:50: right?

00:21:51: I mean, Swiss quote is a great example.

00:21:53: Right it's not like all the other banks going the American way or innovating this whole space.

00:21:57: maybe you want to go into asset management as well.

00:21:59: i think there's room for a strong active asset manager in Switzerland.

00:22:04: so i think focusing on those strengths and making sure that we still exchange with allies whoever we choose!

00:22:11: There's an organization called Greater Zurich Area...I don't know if you've heard of it.

00:22:15: they are responsible Google, NVIDIA even Glencore etc.

00:22:20: to Switzerland.

00:22:21: Those companies coming here employing our people bringing their people.

00:22:25: you know that's an exchange of innovation as well.

00:22:27: You don't have to pop it out of our universities and do it all yourselves.

00:22:31: I mentioned now American companies.

00:22:32: right but oh i think fostering that exchange instead of doing this whole geopolitical fight would be a solution.

00:22:41: And from A Small Swiss Village To The Bold Women Award Let's talk about that.

00:22:46: We've spoken about innovation markets in the future, but behind all of this is also your own story.

00:22:53: I would find it fascinating if you could like just explain where you came from and how you arrived there on our podcast.

00:23:00: I didn't have a plan actually, no?

00:23:02: If you ask my parents or siblings it definitely was curious child that questioned why things were done the way they did.

00:23:08: so this is how i became a scientist first and then i wanted to leave the small swiss town for sure!

00:23:14: I would always be fascinated by America.

00:23:16: we thought everything better.

00:23:17: there was an Andrei Agassi fan, tennis fans, sports fans... most American sports people and followed them.

00:23:26: And their energy, yeah I ended up in finance like i said not because I thought I should end up in Finance although...I had a reason right?

00:23:33: I mean I studied at ETH was recruited by Capital Group for no other reason that they were recruiting it.

00:23:38: uh at Eth where People who did well!

00:23:40: ...and..i Was definitely bit of a nerd ..I tried to do very Well at school so I fulfilled That criteria.

00:23:46: but I noticed In a project we Had together with A couple Of baby food manufacturers We found out that the healthiest way to make baby food was with sheep or goat milk, milk-based baby food.

00:23:59: And it was done with cow's milk.

00:24:00: so our conclusion as scientists wasn't we should make babyfoods with.

00:24:04: you know this better milk.

00:24:06: but guess what?

00:24:07: You have to change the whole industry and how its set up.

00:24:09: The spray towers function differently.

00:24:11: there is a different protein & fat component...and It Was the most uneconomic thing To produce.

00:24:18: So..the companies That actually did Make that Baby Food didn't manage to sell it because the end consumer, you wouldn't think of baby food which is mothers' parents buy baby food.

00:24:30: We're not willing to pay up for that higher value right?

00:24:34: So then you realize oh my god I mean... You can always do the right thing!

00:24:37: ...you have to do it economically.

00:24:39: That in combination with the offer to go into the finance industry made me realise this as an opportunity To maybe understand how economics works As i had no clue.

00:24:49: And then..I just wanted to go America.

00:24:51: So that's how you end up in finance.

00:24:53: Later, I think I told you right?

00:24:55: I was in the energy industry or I was covering energy and had my co-founder ask me to better cover technology.

00:25:03: And this is what I mean The founding of this company.

00:25:07: It's amazing.

00:25:08: We get to speak with forty five different entrepreneurs across the globe learn about how technologies work super nice, you know?

00:25:16: And in the end we make investment products which almost feel boring.

00:25:20: related to that if you ask my team.

00:25:21: Right

00:25:22: and You came back to your roots since Switzerland realizing that in tennis there is also Federer.

00:25:28: It's funny that you went for tennis in the US knowing that actually at time I guess you also had the great tennis players in Switzerland, right?

00:25:36: Who...I mean when Agassi was around it was Sampras-Agassi.

00:25:40: that was a very American dominated courier and all those people.

00:25:44: i also watched McEnroe and All Those Things , i watch Steffi Graf at the Time of course but something fascinated me as a teenager or about The American Way .

00:25:54: I have to admit Roger Federer became huge fan After I saw an interview of Andre Agassi.

00:26:02: Talking about

00:26:03: it!

00:26:03: Approving that he had amazing talent because before, uh... ...I was very focused on other things but then started following Roger Federer as well Of course.

00:26:13: Then you worked in Los Angeles with this dream to come back to Switzerland maybe?

00:26:16: Or how is?

00:26:17: when were in the US You realized there's something here in switzerland That may be they are missing.

00:26:23: Being

00:26:23: in America apart from getting fat In LA actually, even because all you do is drive a car and eat too much.

00:26:30: I mean i learned a few things right?

00:26:31: I was fascinated about America before I went there.

00:26:34: A lot of things don't work over there uh...I mean health care.

00:26:38: it's way nicer back in Switzerland Right?

00:26:40: And also when then moved to London that was disaster so.. I think helped me learn the swiss.

00:26:45: nolan wasn't at all bad!

00:26:48: so much at Capital because I met some of the most curious, smartest people in the world and learned about markets.

00:26:57: So if you add to know how in science a know-how about markets it's exhilarating right?

00:27:03: Because you can put a few things together.

00:27:05: your only thing i'm still missing is history!

00:27:06: I am trying to read up on that.

00:27:08: no but coming back to Zurich was actually nice...I realized wow stuff works here.

00:27:12: You have public transport.

00:27:15: I lost all my weight again,

00:27:17: could play tennis now and take the tram back home.

00:27:20: exactly.

00:27:21: you once said that patience is your strategy?

00:27:24: And in a world obsessed with speed where does that patients come from?

00:27:28: it's not there.

00:27:29: i built it to the company.

00:27:30: yeah i think.

00:27:31: uh it's a fundamental human flaw That we're impatient.

00:27:34: especially investors are worst and i knew that All my investment mistakes ever made were due to impatience And so when we founded the company, I made sure that we had rules embedded into our processes.

00:27:47: We have processes on how to make decisions and we only make decisions once every half year.

00:27:52: When you have announcements like tariffs or whatever it is... You're not allowed to react!

00:27:58: That has been uncomfortable but unbelievably strongly.

00:28:03: performance contributing.

00:28:05: What's the most difficult decision than ever you've made as an entrepreneur?

00:28:08: People

00:28:09: decisions always hiring and letting go people.

00:28:12: So finding this right mix of difficult conversations with the team, everything that's related to humans has always been a more difficult thing but also they're more fulfilling.

00:28:25: Why are you bold woman?

00:28:27: Because it is something in the titles... You received the Vövkliko Bold Women Award!

00:28:33: This is not me who decided to, well Verve Clico is the widow Clico.

00:28:40: Who took over as a twenty-five year old or something that business of her husband in sparkling wine and revolutionized it yeah?

00:28:46: She added a specific process to make less or more see through or more sparkling and change industry And Verve clico now has an award for long time I think forty years or something That they give.

00:29:00: women do something inspiring often, you know a male dominated industry.

00:29:05: And so this is why we got nominated and we got voted for which was a surprise to all of us because asset management is a male-dominated industries true but it's not the one that anyone pays attention too.

00:29:17: I mean when you hear about banks in finance there are always negative news right since ETFs even now they're old news.

00:29:26: A huge innovation in this industry.

00:29:30: So it was nice for us to get a light, that you can change something here.

00:29:34: We're an active company not passive one.

00:29:40: Get some recognition

00:29:41: And innovation comes with inspiration, and I think you have a lot of inspiration to give us.

00:29:46: And I feel inspired talking to you.

00:29:48: so maybe you have something.

00:29:49: say our audience too.

00:29:51: inspire them as well?

00:29:52: Maybe push them for innovation since it's the topic today!

00:30:11: listed companies that happen to, and I'm not saying on purpose sometimes by luck make something that is unbelievably needed in a new innovation.

00:30:20: And that's where you can with much lower risk create a lot of value for your portfolio or childrens' portfolios following what still happening now If you really dig into it, like take in to those photo masks.

00:30:32: You know?

00:30:32: It's very interesting.

00:30:33: why always try and find this new thing that nobody understands?

00:30:37: I mean there are stuff going on That is happening now.

00:30:40: thats fascinating And finding out about that and investing In that space i think can be more fulfilling than people Think

00:30:46: And that's why we do this podcast to find fascinating people talking about fascinating topics.

00:30:50: So Eveline, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

00:30:52: maybe have a last word or if want to talk maybe about the product just mention a last thing about it?

00:30:58: That We might Have missed.

00:30:59: Thanks so much For having me.

00:31:01: I think what is amazing About This Product Is Two Companies Swiss Quote and Singularity Group That Dare To Still Do Something New & Active In A Very Boring Passive asset management industry.

00:31:17: And I think we're with this product, the first thing that were on to bigger things.

00:31:22: thank you for watching us at the spot cast.

00:31:24: Thank You again.

00:31:25: everything for coming on unlocked.

00:31:26: it was a pleasure talking to you.

00:31:27: if anyone wants To reach out or to see A bit more about singularity where they can find The information On your website.

00:31:35: Sure

00:31:35: www dot Singularity dash group.

00:31:39: Amazing, it's going to be in the description.

00:31:41: You've been listening to Unlocked.

00:31:43: presented by SwissQuote.

00:31:44: Eveline thank you again for coming!

00:31:46: If you enjoyed this episode subscribe leave us a five star and we'll see.